Troubleshooting - Revision history

Rhox: /* Generic pointers: */ https://discord.com/channels/373745291289034763/731080362758766652/1267442399588909056

2024-07-29T11:35:51Z

Generic pointers:: https://discord.com/channels/373745291289034763/731080362758766652/1267442399588909056

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:35, 29 July 2024
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	==== Generic pointers: ====		==== Generic pointers: ====

	* Pure Text, Variant and UI mods ~~CAN~~ cause ~~CTD in Wh3, so don't cast them away from~~ the ~~candidate~~.		* Pure Text, Variant, and simple icon replacement mods will hardly ever be able to cause a crash for the user (assuming the modder ever tested their changes).
	** ~~Text: If it~~'s ~~a submod, it can be caused by~~ missing ~~an entry~~, ~~or by using the wrong {tr:}~~		** It's possible for text to have some specific and crashy missing references, and for UI mods to have more complex TWUI files for panel structure and interfaces, and those can cause problems. Again, if translation mods tell you to change load order, those might be doing something very risky and frankly daft.
	** UI: TWUI can cause ~~CTD in various ways~~. ~~Also~~, ~~several of the UI~~ mods ~~use a script~~ to ~~show them as the users like~~		** If variants crash, such as trying to open a character's panel and getting a CTD because it's trying to load its 3d full portrait, try fiddling with your graphic settings and report back to the modder.
	** ~~Variant: Every VMD can cause~~ CTD
	* Momentarily sort by date on the MM to find the most recent updates, if you didn’t add additional mods those ''may'' (just may) be responsible.		* Momentarily sort by date on the MM to find the most recent updates, if you didn’t add additional mods those ''may'' (just may) be responsible.
	* If you had the issue during a campaign, do not remove mods that have custom items, units or buildings because you’re just going to crash harder if those are around in the campaign map.		* If you had the issue during a campaign, do not remove mods that have custom items, units or buildings because you’re just going to crash harder if those are around in the campaign map.

Rhox: /* Generic pointers: */ The case is different in Wh3

2024-07-29T11:03:51Z

Generic pointers:: The case is different in Wh3

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:03, 29 July 2024
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	==== Generic pointers: ====		==== Generic pointers: ====

	* Pure Text, Variant and UI mods can ~~basically NEVER crash~~ the ~~game for the user~~. ~~If they do~~, ~~it’s~~ a ~~botched download.~~		* Pure Text, Variant and UI mods CAN cause CTD in Wh3, so don't cast them away from the candidate.
			** Text: If it's a submod, it can be caused by missing an entry, or by using the wrong {tr:}
			** UI: TWUI can cause CTD in various ways. Also, several of the UI mods use a script to show them as the users like
			** Variant: Every VMD can cause CTD
	* Momentarily sort by date on the MM to find the most recent updates, if you didn’t add additional mods those ''may'' (just may) be responsible.		* Momentarily sort by date on the MM to find the most recent updates, if you didn’t add additional mods those ''may'' (just may) be responsible.
	* If you had the issue during a campaign, do not remove mods that have custom items, units or buildings because you’re just going to crash harder if those are around in the campaign map.		* If you had the issue during a campaign, do not remove mods that have custom items, units or buildings because you’re just going to crash harder if those are around in the campaign map.

Cataph at 11:16, 29 May 2024

2024-05-29T11:16:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:16, 29 May 2024
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	''This list is of course not meant to insult anybody’s intelligence, but you’d be surprised at how many issues and massive wastes of time are due to neglect of these simple rules. Following them is in the user’s interest in order to find a solution sooner, and it will allow the modder more time for improvement rather than wasting their precious free time in unnecessary bug-hunts.''		''This list is of course not meant to insult anybody’s intelligence, but you’d be surprised at how many issues and massive wastes of time are due to neglect of these simple rules. Following them is in the user’s interest in order to find a solution sooner, and it will allow the modder more time for improvement rather than wasting their precious free time in unnecessary bug-hunts.''
	# '''Read the mod description.''' Seriously, this alone would prevent 80% of comments on Steam pages. Even if a description looks long, do it, at least skim it to parse the important bits, it’s there for a reason. Some mods will also have FAQs or a list of known issues, incompatibilities and instructions. Read the comments before yours too if you have to post one. There’s an excellent chance the question you’re going to ask is already answered in in descriptions, FAQs and recent comments.		# '''Read the mod description.''' Seriously, this alone would prevent 80% of comments on Steam pages. Even if a description looks long, do it, at least skim it to parse the important bits, it’s there for a reason. Some mods will also have FAQs or a list of known issues, incompatibilities and instructions. Read the comments before yours too if you have to post one. There’s an excellent chance the question you’re going to ask is already answered in in descriptions, FAQs and recent comments. Also, it's always good to know what the mod you grabbed actually do, so you know where stuff might be coming from.
	# '''Don’t ignore the required items.''' The mod may show you a popup upon subscribing, disregarding that is almost always cue for disaster. This popup is ''not'' shown when subbing from a Steam collection (thanks Gaben), so actually check the mod’s page. PJ's MM will warn you about this if you haven't enabled important mods.		# '''Don’t ignore the required items.''' The mod may show you a popup upon subscribing, disregarding that is almost always cue for disaster. This popup is ''not'' shown when subbing from a Steam collection (thanks Gaben), so actually check the mod’s page. PJ's MM will warn you about this if you haven't enabled important mods.
	# '''Keep load order alphanumerical.''' We’ve been over that already. If you have new mods that have somehow popped at the tail of the list, just reset the mod list, e.g., click twice again on the <code>Name</code> column in George until it looks alphabetical.		# '''Keep load order alphanumerical.''' We’ve been over that already. If you have new mods that have somehow popped at the tail of the list, just reset the mod list, e.g., click twice again on the <code>Name</code> column in George until it looks alphabetical.

Cataph at 11:14, 29 May 2024

2024-05-29T11:14:38Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:14, 29 May 2024
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	Yes, this is tiresome, but trust me, '''if Steam is doing this to the mod, and it's very common that it does, we modders can't do anything for you'''. And if the wretched modder actually pushed an update that crashed the game, they'll know by the sheer amount of reports.		Yes, this is tiresome, but trust me, '''if Steam is doing this to the mod, and it's very common that it does, we modders can't do anything for you'''. And if the wretched modder actually pushed an update that crashed the game, they'll know by the sheer amount of reports.

	So if a mod that clearly shouldn't be crashing (or having pre-patch features) but it keeps doing it for you, just keep forcing the update locally for your game.		So if a mod that clearly shouldn't be crashing (or having pre-patch features) but it keeps doing it for you, just keep forcing the update locally for your game. And maybe go pester Valve for a fix.

	== User good practices: ==		== User good practices: ==
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	Go in <code>C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer3\saved_characters</code> (or search %appdata% in windows search, then continue to those folders) and delete them.		Go in <code>C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer3\saved_characters</code> (or search %appdata% in windows search, then continue to those folders) and delete them.

			== APPENDIX: the Powershell rummage ==
			TBC

Cataph at 11:07, 29 May 2024

2024-05-29T11:07:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:07, 29 May 2024
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	#* Save game: if requested, you can find your save game in (example) C:\Users\%USER%\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer2\save_games. Remember the mod list, because the modder may not be able to load without it.		#* Save game: if requested, you can find your save game in (example) C:\Users\%USER%\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer2\save_games. Remember the mod list, because the modder may not be able to load without it.
	#* Results of your own troubleshooting: for example it’s good to know it happens with that one mod only. Relatedly, if you posted about an issue and later find the cause, let us know.		#* Results of your own troubleshooting: for example it’s good to know it happens with that one mod only. Relatedly, if you posted about an issue and later find the cause, let us know.
	# '''"It doesn't crash so it works"'''. Don't assume your mod list is working just because it's not currently blowing up your computer or it didn't murder your cat. A crash is only the most visible of symptoms, it's like assuming a coal miner is perfectly fine just because they haven't dropped dead yet. You may have all kinds of issues in your 400-mods list ranging from fucked models to script breaks. Did I mention don't use 400 mods? Yeah, probably don't.		# '''"It doesn't crash so it works"'''. Don't assume your mod list is working just because it's not currently blowing up your computer or it didn't murder your cat. A crash is only the most visible of symptoms, it's like assuming a coal miner is perfectly fine just because they haven't dropped dead yet. You may have all kinds of issues in your 400-mods list ranging from fucked models to script breaks. Did I mention don't use 400 mods? Yeah nah, probably don't.

	== APPENDIX: Trimming the Mod List ==		== APPENDIX: Trimming the Mod List ==
	There is no such thing as a mod cap in WH3, which is another common trope. It’s up to you to keep your mod list functional, and the more mods you run the more likely you are to encounter issues, or just to see maintenance time increase for you. Making your mod list work is up to how careful you are. Remember, just because your list doesn’t produce an instant crash you can’t be sure there aren’t less visible issues, e.g. script breaks.		There is no such thing as a mod cap in WH3, which is another common trope. It’s up to you to keep your mod list functional, and '''the more mods you run the more likely you are to encounter issues, or just to see maintenance time increase for you'''. Making your mod list work is up to how careful you are. '''Remember, just because your list doesn’t produce an instant crash you can’t be sure there aren’t less visible issues''', e.g. script breaks.

	As a rule of thumb, don’t be cocky with your list of 250 mods. It’s all fun and games until everything works perfectly (and with those numbers chances are it doesn’t already, you just can’t see it), at which point there’s a lot of stuff to check.		As a rule of thumb, don’t be cocky with your list of 250 mods. It’s all fun and games until everything works perfectly (and with those numbers chances are it doesn’t already, you just can’t see it), at which point there’s a lot of stuff to check. Even if 300 out of 350 are reskins you would entrust with your house keys, it all adds to the volume of annoyance if something goes wrong. For example, maybe don't enable mods that affect stuff you will NEVER see as a player for a given campaign.

	If you’re not experienced yet (and don’t assume you are just because you played Skyrim, this is different), use the mod list of someone that has very carefully been curating it, and check that it looks ok with the help of the modders themselves. For example, start by a modder’s own collection on Steam, they often have one.		If you’re not experienced yet (and don’t assume you are just because you played Skyrim, this is different), use the mod list of someone that has very carefully been curating it, and check that it looks ok with the help of the modders themselves. For example, start by a modder’s own collection on Steam, they often have one.
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	==== Bisect and Conquer: ====		==== Bisect and Conquer: ====
	Especially when dealing with big mod lists, the quickest method is to enable half of it. If you crash, that’s the troublesome half. ~~Halven~~ again to tighten the noose.		[[File:Bisect wh3mm.jpg\|thumb\|Within PJ's WH3MM, within Other Options]]
			Especially when dealing with big mod lists, the quickest method is to enable half of it. If you crash, that’s the troublesome half. Halve again to tighten the noose.

	Keep in mind mod requirements while you do this.		Keep in mind mod requirements while you do this.

Cataph: continued overhaul of the guide with more modern stuff

2024-05-29T10:40:55Z

continued overhaul of the guide with more modern stuff

Show changes

Cataph: reworked first two chapters

2024-05-29T09:29:11Z

reworked first two chapters

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:29, 29 May 2024
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	This is a troubleshooting guide for mod users in TW: Warhammer ~~2 and now~~ 3. ~~The~~ generic pointers should be valid for all recent TW games.		This is a troubleshooting guide for mod users in TW: Warhammer 3. There will be different details and more or less big variations, beginning with what mod managers you could use, but generic pointers should be valid for all recent TW games.

	– Your neighbourhood Cataph		– Your neighbourhood Cataph

	~~<blockquote>~~		''last updated in may 2024''

			== Managing Mods ==
			So, you have subscribed to mods on the workshop, I say, as I lift one foot to rest on a stool and one arm on that knee for stereotypical posture. By default, you'll obviously be using CA’s mod manager (hereby called George by emulating CA's name-giving tradition) from the game's launcher to enable, remove or whatever the mods you have subscribed to.

	~~'''!!!'''~~		However, while George got some upgrades in the past years and has resolved some of its most painful problem, it's still fairly limited in what it does. There is a recommendation at this point of grabbing a community-made mod managers, and oh boy we're so lucky we even have a selection. I cannot in good conscience offer pros/cons of each as I didn't make that kind of comparison within WH3.

	~~'''WARHAMMER 3 PRELIMINARY HIGHLIGHT (will update and merge better later on)'''~~

	* [https://discord.com/channels/373745291289034763/650269940393443328/960904987523809340 Remove any movie pack from the pre-workshop interim period.]
	* Delete any user script you may have tried using if you were a masochist.
	* Delete the <code>-dx11</code> override you may have put on Steam (game>properties>launch options in the ~~lower right must be empty).~~
	* Don't launch the game from the taskbar or from the exe, as it ~~won't load mods; use the Play button or steam shortcut, or even RPFM~~'s ~~launch.~~
	* Go to <code>%appdata%\The Creative Assembly\Launcher</code> and delete <code>moddata.dat</code>. In case the launcher got stuck.
	* Since Steam is ~~doodoo, data may get corrupted. Unsubscribe~~, and ~~wait for the mod to be removed~~. ~~If it needs to be manually removed, go to <code>steamapps\workshop\content\1142710\<~~/~~code>xyz where xyz is the mod id on its url. Then redownload and wait.~~
	* Verify game cache.

	''~~'!!!'''<~~/~~blockquote>~~		* [https://github.com/Kaedrin/warhammer-mod-manager/releases/ Kaedrin's]: first of this lot, works across multiple titles.
			* [https://github.com/Shazbot/WH3-Mod-Manager/releases/ PropJoes's, aka WH3MM].
			* [https://github.com/Frodo45127/runcher/releases/ Runcher]: made by Frodo, same guy behind RPFM, the modding tool.

	~~== Managing Mods ==~~		These managers have something in common, which is offering a whole lot of options compared to George: making groups of mods, ease of opening them with RPFM or reaching their workshop page, backup and cloning options, cool stuff like that. '''''Personally''''', I use the second, PJ's, because it was the first of these to work for WH3 and I never had reasons to change back to KMM or try Runcher, but that is my personal choice and habit. Pick your favourite. Inevitably, this guide will also be written in a way that is influenced by this choice of mine; some things or options will be worded differently for the other MMs, be in different spots, or not be there. You get the drift though.
	So, ~~you have subscribed~~ to mods ~~on the~~ workshop. ~~You now open CA’s current mod manager (hereby called George)~~ and ~~– blimey~~, ~~they don’t work~~ or ~~something’s~~ not ~~right~~.

	~~First thing to keep in mind, if you have issues with George you should definitely report them to CA so that they know what they should look at.~~		== How to Load Order ==
			All of these managers, including George, have functions to manually change how mods are loaded, which is an old habit of a lot of other modding communities, so you’d be tempted to change load order manually to make things work just right, right?
	That said, you can just use the [https://github.com/Kaedrin/warhammer-mod-manager community mod manager] (normally called KMM). Long story short, George is unwieldy and has grown responsible for a lot of issues of its own, becoming hated by modders and users alike. Among other things, KMM is more reliable and provides mod profiles.<blockquote>'''''For WH3 as of August''': KMM is still not updated, [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2845454582 but PJ made another perfectly-working community mod manager (read for the actual link).] Good practices still apply, but all issues/notes about KMM copying items to data/ don't apply because it doesn't. Will update the guide better as things evolve.''</blockquote>

	==== How to Load Order ====
	~~KMM and even~~ George have ~~a function~~ to manually change how mods are loaded, which is an old habit of a lot of other modding communities, so you’d be tempted to change load order manually, right?

	'''''WRONG.'''''		'''''WRONG.'''''
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	Ok, I’ll spare some time for this before we get into the actually useful tips, because this is one of the nastiest tropes around the community. The truth is that compatibility-minded modders already handle load order on their own as far as possible. Manually changing load order may do absolutely nothing, shift the problem somewhere else or break everything.		Ok, I’ll spare some time for this before we get into the actually useful tips, because this is one of the nastiest tropes around the community. The truth is that compatibility-minded modders already handle load order on their own as far as possible. Manually changing load order may do absolutely nothing, shift the problem somewhere else or break everything.

	Some context. There are six main possible categories of folders in a mod pack and this is how they handle load order, either through actual pack name or table name:		Some context. There are six main possible categories of folders in a mod pack and this is how they handle load order, either through actual '''pack name''' (the file name as the .pack gets downloaded) or '''table name''' (internal bits you won't see unless you open the pack):

	* '''Db''': table name.		* '''Db''': table name.
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	* '''Variants''': pack name.		* '''Variants''': pack name.

	And that is if the modder doesn’t redirect content (e.g., telling database to use a different ui icon). ~~KMM can only affect pack name order, so there~~ are things like balance submods (Db overrides) that are still completely in the hands of the modders and intentionally so.		And that is if the modder doesn’t redirect content (e.g., telling database to use a different icon from a different file path). There are things like balance submods (mostly Db overrides) that are still completely in the hands of the modders and intentionally so. In essence, packs should be ordered alphabetically and let the inner bits do their thing.

	In other words, there are only two possible cases in which you may want to alter load order manually: UI and variants, basically if you want to use specific reskin B.pack in the midst of larger reskin A.pack, in which case you push B on top.		In other words, there are only two possible cases in which you may want to alter load order manually: UI and variants, basically if you want to use specific reskin B.pack in the midst of larger reskin A.pack, in which case you push B on top. But generally speaking this should be out of your mind or can be manually tweaked with a bit more care.

	''In conclusion~~, you want to follow KMM’s instructions~~, give Steam time to download/remove mods and ~~mostly~~ keep load order in an alphabetical fashion (e.g. order by name and save profile), especially after adding new mods.''		''In conclusion, give Steam time to download/remove mods and keep load order in an alphabetical fashion (e.g. order by name and save profile), especially after adding new mods.''

	Which, incidentally, is this:		Which, incidentally, is this:
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	Where “!” wins over “a”.		Where “!” wins over “a”.

			Sometimes, mod descriptions will tell you to manually alter load order to make that mod work over another, but quite frankly that is either unnecessary or the modder didn't do their homework to make sure that worked ''anyway''.

	== Common Troubleshooting ==		== Common Troubleshooting ==

Cataph: /* APPENDIX: WH3, crashing on clicking Skirmish */

2023-03-18T12:35:26Z

APPENDIX: WH3, crashing on clicking Skirmish

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:35, 18 March 2023
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	This other framework is used to provide settings for compatible mods, i.e. to tweak some details at your heart’s content. Usually a good thing to keep it around because there’s quite a few mods supporting it, or that may do it in the future. For example, you may use it to configure some scripts to fire in a performance mode to reduce impact on campaign start.		This other framework is used to provide settings for compatible mods, i.e. to tweak some details at your heart’s content. Usually a good thing to keep it around because there’s quite a few mods supporting it, or that may do it in the future. For example, you may use it to configure some scripts to fire in a performance mode to reduce impact on campaign start.
	== APPENDIX: WH3, crashing on clicking Skirmish ==		== APPENDIX: WH3, crashing on clicking Skirmish ==
	The most likely cause for this right now is that you saved a character (that new fancy function in WH3 to play campaign characters into skirmishes) but it was originated or affected by a mod that you have since then removed. Kaboom.		The most likely cause for this right now is that you saved a character (that new fancy function in WH3 to play campaign characters into skirmishes) but it was originated or affected by a mod that you have since then removed. Kaboom. The other symptom is going kaboom when trying to recruit any hero or lord in campaign.

	Go in <code>C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer3\saved_characters</code> (or search %appdata% in windows search, then continue to those folders) and delete them.		Go in <code>C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer3\saved_characters</code> (or search %appdata% in windows search, then continue to those folders) and delete them.

Cataph: /* Managing Mods */

2022-08-28T12:51:45Z

Managing Mods

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:51, 28 August 2022
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	First thing to keep in mind, if you have issues with George you should definitely report them to CA so that they know what they should look at.		First thing to keep in mind, if you have issues with George you should definitely report them to CA so that they know what they should look at.

	That said, you can just use the [https://github.com/Kaedrin/warhammer-mod-manager community mod manager] (normally called KMM). Long story short, George is unwieldy and has grown responsible for a lot of issues of its own, becoming hated by modders and users alike. Among other things, KMM is more reliable and provides mod profiles.<blockquote>'''''For WH3 as of August''': KMM is still not updated, [https://~~github~~.com/~~Shazbot~~/~~WH3-Mod-Manager/releases~~/~~latest~~ but PJ made another perfectly-working community mod manager.] Good practices still apply, but all issues/notes about KMM copying items to data/ don't apply because it doesn't. Will update the guide better as things evolve.''</blockquote>		That said, you can just use the [https://github.com/Kaedrin/warhammer-mod-manager community mod manager] (normally called KMM). Long story short, George is unwieldy and has grown responsible for a lot of issues of its own, becoming hated by modders and users alike. Among other things, KMM is more reliable and provides mod profiles.<blockquote>'''''For WH3 as of August''': KMM is still not updated, [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2845454582 but PJ made another perfectly-working community mod manager (read for the actual link).] Good practices still apply, but all issues/notes about KMM copying items to data/ don't apply because it doesn't. Will update the guide better as things evolve.''</blockquote>

	==== How to Load Order ====		==== How to Load Order ====

Cataph: /* User good practices: */

2022-08-28T09:15:53Z

User good practices:

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:15, 28 August 2022
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	#* Save game: if requested, you can find your save game in (example) C:\Users\%USER%\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer2\save_games. Remember the mod list, because the modder may not be able to load without it.		#* Save game: if requested, you can find your save game in (example) C:\Users\%USER%\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer2\save_games. Remember the mod list, because the modder may not be able to load without it.
	#* Results of your own troubleshooting: for example it’s good to know it happens with that one mod only. Relatedly, if you posted about an issue and later find the cause, let us know.		#* Results of your own troubleshooting: for example it’s good to know it happens with that one mod only. Relatedly, if you posted about an issue and later find the cause, let us know.
			# Don't assume your mod lists is working just because it's not crashing. A crash is only the most visible of symptoms, it's like assuming a coal miner is perfectly fine just because they haven't dropped dead yet. You may have all kinds of issues in your 400-mods list ranging from fucked models to script breaks. Did I mention don't use 400 mods? Yeah, probably don't.

	''This list is of course not meant to insult anybody’s intelligence, but you’d be surprised at how many issues and massive wastes of time are due to neglect of these simple rules. Following them is in the user’s interest in order to find a solution sooner, and it will allow the modder more time for improvement rather than wasted in unnecessary bug-hunts.''		''This list is of course not meant to insult anybody’s intelligence, but you’d be surprised at how many issues and massive wastes of time are due to neglect of these simple rules. Following them is in the user’s interest in order to find a solution sooner, and it will allow the modder more time for improvement rather than wasted in unnecessary bug-hunts.''